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Author
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Topic: Gunned down on his wedding day
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Spike
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Member # 3434
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posted November 25, 2006 07:42 AM
Oh, I'm sure the guy deserved it for partying too hard.
Police shoot 3 near NYC club, 1 dies
NEW YORK - Officers shot three people who had just left a bachelor party outside a Queens strip club early Saturday morning, leaving the groom dead on the day of his wedding, according to reports from police and witnesses.
The shooting happened just after 4 a.m. near Club Kalua, said Officer Kathleen Price, a police department spokeswoman.
"All I know, they was celebrating," said Denise Ford, who said her son was one of the surviving shooting victims. She said the man who died was the groom. "The guy was getting married today."
The man who died was taken to Jamaica Hospital Medical Center, said Sgt. Mike Wysokowski, another police spokesman. The other two were taken to Mary Immaculate Hospital nearby, with one in critical condition and the other stable. They ranged in age from 23 to 31 years old.
Price said there were no reports that officers were wounded in the incident.
"They weren't rowdy or nothing like that," said Brown, 57, of Queens, who said he works as a photographer at the club.
It was not clear what sparked the shooting. A message seeking comment was left at one phone listing for the club; another went unanswered.
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drink the koolaid
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posted November 25, 2006 08:40 AM
at a strip joint til 4a, on his wedding day...?
Trust me, he would have been cheating and divorced, in less than a year.
[ November 25, 2006, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: drink the koolaid ]
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Spike
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posted November 25, 2006 04:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by drink the koolaid:
at a strip joint til 4a, on his wedding day...?
Trust me, he would have been cheating and divorced, in less than a year.
So he needed to die? Great.
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Marty McFly
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posted November 25, 2006 05:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by drink the koolaid:
at a strip joint til 4a, on his wedding day...?
Trust me, he would have been cheating and divorced, in less than a year.
Well, that certainly sounds like justification to fill him full of lead!
Sarcasm font now off.
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Kace
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posted November 25, 2006 09:36 PM
I can see where that would monkey wrench wedding plans.
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Another side
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posted November 26, 2006 04:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by drink the koolaid:
at a strip joint til 4a, on his wedding day...?
Trust me, he would have been cheating and divorced, in less than a year.
I
I was out all night-- til 6am -- the day of my wedding. Been married 24 years to the same woman.
You're not going to shoot me now, are you?
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TVMattNYC
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posted November 26, 2006 04:29 AM
Oh boo hoo hoo. New York lost a few more hoodlums.
I love how people conveniently forget there's always ... ALWAYS ... a story BEHIND the story.
Cops don't just shoot people randomly.
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wxgeek
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posted November 26, 2006 05:11 AM
(Insensitive comment coming in 3....2...1....)
Wow...I guess he's REALLY got cold feet now...
(End insensitive comment section)
Seriously, as Matt said, despite what Al Sharpton and Co. would have you believe, the police do not just randomly shoot people. Something more happened here.
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bride
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posted November 26, 2006 06:10 AM
We reported this morning that police officers fired 50 ROUNDS into the suspect's car. Sheesh.
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Spike
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posted November 26, 2006 06:11 AM
I would love to hear what this story behind the story is. Interestingly, the cops aren't talking about it.
Gee, I wonder why...
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what the ??
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posted November 26, 2006 06:16 AM
quote:
Originally posted by wxgeek:
[QB
Seriously, as Matt said, despite what Al Sharpton and Co. would have you believe, the police do not just randomly shoot people. Something more happened here.[/QB]
Ditto...
By we just read the headlines and go from there.
By the way, before the shooting, the groom ran over the cop. I guess that is not part of the story.(that part doesn't make the story as cruel, my bad).
I will sit back and see why they shot 50 times...but they were trying to get away. Those that cry foul, am I to understand the police should let them get away.
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what the ??
Senior Member
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posted November 26, 2006 06:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I would love to hear what this story behind the story is. Interestingly, the cops aren't talking about it.
Gee, I wonder why...
Its under investigation. Does a cop answer every question you have just after a crime?
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Another side
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posted November 26, 2006 10:20 AM
Yes. They answer it with, "It's under investigation."
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Signature on File
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posted November 26, 2006 03:45 PM
Strip Club?....nuff said!
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Another side
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posted November 26, 2006 04:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by what the ??:
I will sit back and see why they shot 50 times...but they were trying to get away. Those that cry foul, am I to understand the police should let them get away.
Most departments have policies forbidding officers shooting at moving vehicles -- hell, not even the LAPD allows it, as you can see in all those televised pursuits.
Why? Two reasons: It's not a good idea to kill or wound the driver of a speeding vehicle, leaving the vehicle on its own -- ruderless --at 60 or 70 mph. Second, you can't be positive everyone on the car WANTS to be in the car -- there could be someone in there screaming to get out ... or even a hostage.
If it's true they fired off 50 rounds at a moving vehicle, someone's losing a job.
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TXPhotog
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posted November 26, 2006 04:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Another side:
[QB][QUOTE]Originally posted by what the ??:
[qb] Second, you can't be positive everyone on the car WANTS to be in the car -- there could be someone in there screaming to get out ... or even a hostage.
QB]
Kinda like that old joke where you say: "When I die, I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather, not screaming like the passengers in his car."
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Another side
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posted November 26, 2006 04:42 PM
*laughing*
Exactly.
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NoName
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posted November 26, 2006 04:44 PM
Let's see...
An illicit strip club with troubled history, filled with undercovers, and a groom who thought he could get away with trying to run down an officer??
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Another side
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posted November 26, 2006 05:07 PM
quote:
Originally posted by NoName:
Let's see...
An illicit strip club with troubled history, filled with undercovers, and a groom who thought he could get away with trying to run down an officer??
O.K. ... where did we come up with "the illicit strip club with troubled history"?
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The Outlaw Josey Wales
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posted November 26, 2006 06:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Another side:
I was out all night-- til 6am -- the day of my wedding. Been married 24 years to the same woman.
You're not going to shoot me now, are you?[/QB]
If I was a Police Officer and you tried to run me down with your car (Deadly Force) You better believe I'm going to shoot you and not stop until your car does.
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MarkPA
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posted November 26, 2006 06:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by wxgeek:
(Insensitive comment coming in 3....2...1....)
Wow...I guess he's REALLY got cold feet now...
(End insensitive comment section)
Seriously, as Matt said, despite what Al Sharpton and Co. would have you believe, the police do not just randomly shoot people. Something more happened here.
Aw, c'mon, it's not like Al and his band of extortionists would ever rush to judgment just because the "victim" is black, would they? They'd wait to see what all the facts were first, right? Then and only then would they make an unbiased judgment based solely on fact, right?
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo........
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s'news
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posted November 26, 2006 06:51 PM
I was out late shortly before my marriage. But we didn't do it the night before, so that we would have time to bail everybody out in time.
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Produce man
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posted November 26, 2006 08:41 PM
So, this is another "Nazi/police comparison? Great, I'll be sure and look into this.
What's next, Bush and Halliburton are behind it?
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Another side
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posted November 27, 2006 02:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by The Outlaw Josie Wales:
quote:
Originally posted by Another side:
I was out all night-- til 6am -- the day of my wedding. Been married 24 years to the same woman.
You're not going to shoot me now, are you?
If I was a Police Officer and you tried to run me down with your car (Deadly Force) You better believe I'm going to shoot you and not stop until your car does.[/QB]
Oh, sure. But that could happen at a more reasonable hour, too --like 10 a.m. or 4 p.m. My response was specifically to the moronic suggetion that if someone stays out until 4 a.m., even at a strip club, he is automatically a cheater headed for a quick divorce. Save your drooling Rambo shtick for a more appropriate place.
By the way ... "What the ???" said the driver ran over the cop (and --HAHAHAHAHA-- he says, it went "unreported") and now you're saying he "tried" to run over the officer. Do you have a link that might clear that up ... or verify any of it ... because it wasn't in the original story. Thanks.
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Fearmonger
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posted November 27, 2006 02:15 AM
The cop haters here come out like cockroaches at night... ![[Sleep]](graemlins/sleep.gif)
These fine upstanding fellows had no extensive rap sheets. That rat hole they were hanging around in was crime free. Yeah right ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Another side
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posted November 27, 2006 02:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Fearmonger:
The cop haters here come out like cockroaches at night...
These fine upstanding fellows had no extensive rap sheets. That rat hole they were hanging around in was crime free. Yeah right
Well, if there's anyone who would know about cockroaches ... .
By the way ... do you actually know anything about it, or are you just blowing smoke?
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NoName
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posted November 27, 2006 04:00 AM
Where did I get that from? The story. I live in the area here, and the REPORTS (yes, more than just one) are describing the club and chain of events. This is not your "average" strip club, but one that's been under investigation and cited several times. The cops were in there to catch activity again so they could close it down.
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Another side
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posted November 27, 2006 04:17 AM
Well for Pete's sake, then link us to it.
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Another side
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posted November 27, 2006 05:09 AM
Never mind. I found one. It was written Sunday and more complete. Click here
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The Fedora
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posted November 27, 2006 05:47 AM
I heard on the BBC that the guy ran over a cop. I also heard that the three men were unarmed...
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what the ??
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posted November 27, 2006 06:10 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Another side:
[QUOTE]
By the way ... "What the ???" said the driver ran over the cop (and --HAHAHAHAHA-- he says, it went "unreported") and now you're saying he "tried" to run over the officer. Do you have a link that might clear that up ... or verify any of it ... because it wasn't in the original story. Thanks.
Well this is easy.
When I posted my part, I stated that we are jumping to conclusions without the whole story being told. The part about the suspect running into a cop and/or his car had not been reported in the orginal story or on this page. That was the "unreported" part. After a weatherman did a little investigating, I found more to the story. I also never reposted saying he "tried" to do it(not sure what you mean there buddy).
Now that you have found another link to verify what I stated a couple days ago. I will accept you apology.
Thank you.
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Ryder13
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posted November 27, 2006 06:11 AM
OK, CBS is reporting that this groom "ran into the cops' UNMARKED CAR" -- I saw nothing to indicate he ran into an actual officer. AND that the officers were plainclothes.
How exactly was this driver supposed to know that he had just struck a police vehicle?
According to the report -- one of the cops thought he HEARD a gun. He couldn't have SEEN one -- the three men in the car were unarmed and no weapon was found.
If some men in plainclothes started shooting at YOU -- IN FORCE -- wouldn't YOU also try to get away?
One of the survivors said he thought it was a carjacking.
Also, as I recall, don't most police forces recommend that if you aren't sure whether a plainclothes officer is INDEED an officer -- to ask him to call a marked vehicle with uniformed officers (or do it yourself) OR drive to the nearest police station?
And as the report noted -- since the driver is dead, we will never know what HE was thinking.
Sorry people -- but it is a different world when it comes to dealing with the police if you are a member of an ethnic minority. That is fact. WE may wish otherwise and many police forces have made great strides to correct it -- but we're not there yet.
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what the ??
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posted November 27, 2006 06:36 AM
ryder...every story is a bit different. In the links just above, they read in parts:
"Kelly has said police shot at the car after it drove forward and struck an undercover officer and an unmarked police minivan. The information was based on interviews with witnesses and two officers who did not fire their weapons, he said."
"An undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his friends as they headed for their car. As he walked toward the front of the vehicle, the car drove forward, striking the officer and minivan, Kelly said."
and then...
"At some point, Bell backed the car onto a sidewalk, hitting a building gate, police said. He then drove forward, striking the police vehicle a second time, Kelly said."
...Commissioner Raymond Kelly.
I can't find the orginal link I used yesterday but it was close to this one.
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Spike
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posted November 27, 2006 07:20 AM
But again, if a bunch of guys in plain clothes with guns came after you, wouldn't you try to get away? Or would you just sit there and let yourself be carjacked, beaten, robbed, shot, etc. because you think it might be cops?
Then there's this: "An undercover officer walked closely behind Bell and his friends as they headed for their car. As he walked toward the front of the vehicle, the car drove forward, striking the officer and minivan, Kelly said."
I can't for the life of me picture how this happened. The cop was walking closely behind them, then they suddenly teleported themselves into the car and tried to run over him? The cops' stories don't make sense.
Oh, and of course they heard a gunshot. I really believe that. That's standard cop CYA when they f*ck up. "I thought I heard a gunshot!" Oh, that's okay then, as long as you really think you're being threatened, it's okay to kill people.
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Ryder13
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posted November 27, 2006 08:06 AM
OK -- let us assume that the vehicle DID strike one of the officers.
The fact remains that they were in an UNMARKED VEHICLE IN PLAIN CLOTHES.
If you struck someone else's car and their reaction was for several of them to come at you with weapons drawn -- any thought of stopping and exchanging information goes right out the window.
I would be in full panic and doing everything in my power to get the heck out of there, if I had been the driver.
Under those circumstances I unable to see a way for the officers to SAFELY stop that car.
Now, had the occupants of the (ultimately unarmed) car discharged with guns blazing -- OK. But, I'm not seeing evidence of that.
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Invinoveritas
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posted November 27, 2006 10:50 AM
quote:
One 12-year veteran fired his weapon 31 times, emptying two full magazines, Kelly said.
you have to admit that this is excessive. If you have time to load a second magazine into the gun and discharge all of those bullets, then you should have time to see if they are shooting back, Or at least take the time to aim.
"The officers' shots struck the men's car 21 times. They also hit nearby homes and shattered windows at a train station, though no residents were injured."
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Lazlo Toth
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posted November 27, 2006 11:38 AM
I want to wait for more information before making any judgments either way. It sounds as if there's too little info yet to know if the shooting was justified.
31 shots does sound excessive. I would be curious to hear the cop explain it.
By the way, I have a retired cop friend who can fire two magazines in about fifteen or twenty seconds. It happens fast. His semi auto pumps out about two shots a second. When the first mag is empty, he hits the release and slams the second one in before the first hits the ground.
[ November 27, 2006, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Lazlo Toth ]
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Ryder13
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posted November 27, 2006 11:54 AM
I agree about wanting to see more of this investigation before rushing to judgement.
What I find disturbing is not the 'presumption of innocence' that people are asking should be extended to the cops -- but that the SAME attitude seems to have been missing toward the three men in the car that was shot at. (Until the investigation gets farther, that's only an assumption.)
Police officers are human -- but they can and DO make mistakes. And should be held both accountable and to a higher standard when they do.
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Fearmonger
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posted November 27, 2006 11:59 AM
It’s like this:
1. The New York cops have only pissy little 9MM rounds that don’t stop much. They should have .45s.
2. With everyone (the other cops) firing at once you can’t tell who’s firing.
3. It was not in daylight. The decreased visibility places officers at a disadvantage.
4. With all that shooting the adrenalin takes over.
5. Survival is our strongest human instinct, nobody including cops want to die.
[ November 27, 2006, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: Fearmonger ]
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Remember dear readers, you heard it here first! Off the record, on the QT and very hush hush...
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