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Author
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Topic: Do you use the term "robbed" properly?
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Obewon
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posted November 22, 2006 07:49 AM
This is the generally accepted definition of the term "Rob":
"Rob is the general word for taking possessions by unlawful force or violence: to rob a bank, a house, a train."
All the headlines this morning that screamed
"BUSH DAUGHTER ROBBED" were deliberatly misleading for whatever reason.
Her purse was stolen which is a larceny. There was no use of or threat of force involved.
And making fun of the Secret Service (who were across the room) because they didn't notice what is essentially a tag team pick pocket team is also disingenuous.
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Mr. Vengeance
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posted November 22, 2006 07:52 AM
How about "robbery" vs. "burglary"?
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Fargin Icehole
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posted November 22, 2006 08:08 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Vengeance:
How about "robbery" vs. "burglary"?
There are seasoned reporters who STILL can't get that one straight.
How about the difference between "accept" and "except" or "affect" and "effect"? ![[Frustrated]](graemlins/face_banghead.gif)
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Fargin Icehole
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posted November 22, 2006 08:11 AM
Unless her purse was carrying the nuclear launch codes, isn't it her problem to watch her stuff?
Just askin'
(mostly becasue I don't want a Secret Service boot on my neck when I head for my car this afternoon).
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wxgeek
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posted November 22, 2006 08:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Obewon:
This is the generally accepted definition of the term "Rob":
"Rob is the general word for taking possessions by unlawful force or violence: to rob a bank, a house, a train."
All the headlines this morning that screamed
"BUSH DAUGHTER ROBBED" were deliberatly misleading for whatever reason.
Her purse was stolen which is a larceny. There was no use of or threat of force involved.
And making fun of the Secret Service (who were across the room) because they didn't notice what is essentially a tag team pick pocket team is also disingenuous.
Deliberately misleading? Hardly. Incorrect and inaccurate? Absolutely.
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Obewon
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posted November 22, 2006 08:30 AM
I absolutely meant that it is deliberate with the intention of making fun of the daughters by:
1. Calling attention to them being out of the country
2. Calling attention to them being in a nightclub or whatever it was
3. Calling attention to them being guarded by secret service men at the taxpayer's expense
That is the way the media operates, especially when they hate someone like they do the Bush's.
Had the headlines read properly: "Bush Daughter's purse stolen," There would be no issue.
I stand by what I said.
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Peace-Through Superior Firepower
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Can't Keep Me Down
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posted November 22, 2006 08:37 AM
I doubt the low-level copy editor who put "BUSH DAUGHTER ROBBED" actually thought, "Hmm...I want to deliberately make Bush look bad, so I will use 'robbed improperly'...BWAHAHAHA!!!"
I think the person who wrote that headline used it incorrectly because they don't know the difference.
Your 3 points are facts that are part of the story.
You are reading toooooo much into it.
[ November 22, 2006, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Can't Keep Me Down ]
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Tripe Face
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posted November 22, 2006 08:42 AM
You are applying a strict legal definition to the verb "rob"
Here's the entry from Merriam Webster's Thesaurus for "rob"
rob
One entry found for rob.
Entry Word: rob
Function: verb
Text: to remove valuables from (a place) unlawfully <in jail for robbing a bank>
Synonyms burglarize, rip off, steal (from)
So you see, in speaking plain english, she was "robbed"
Thanks for bringing up an important issue.
ps Should a person be arrested for this crime, it would be more important to be careful in reporting what he/she was charged with.
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Spike
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posted November 22, 2006 08:46 AM
No, it was deliberately misleading. The news organizations that used that line were deliberately trying to mislead their readers/viewers into thinking that she had suffered some attack on her person, in order to draw in more readers/viewers. It's pretty naive to think this wasn't a deliberate bait and switch.
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Michigan J. Frog
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posted November 22, 2006 08:48 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
No, it was deliberately misleading. The news organizations that used that line were deliberately trying to mislead their readers/viewers into thinking that she had suffered some attack on her person.
Prove it.
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Michigan J. Frog
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posted November 22, 2006 08:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Obewon:
I absolutely meant that it is deliberate with the intention of making fun of the daughters by:
1. Calling attention to them being out of the country
2. Calling attention to them being in a nightclub or whatever it was
3. Calling attention to them being guarded by secret service men at the taxpayer's expense
That is the way the media operates, especially when they hate someone like they do the Bush's.
Had the headlines read properly: "Bush Daughter's purse stolen," There would be no issue.
I stand by what I said.
Are you "in" the media?
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"It would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense, we would sanction the subversion of those liberties which make the defense of the nation worthwhile." -Earl Warren
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s'news
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posted November 22, 2006 08:54 AM
Actually, SamG, my trip to the M-W thesaurus comes up with this fuller listing ...
Entry Word: rob
Function: verb
Text: to remove valuables from (a place) unlawfully <in jail for robbing a bank>
Synonyms burglarize, rip off, steal (from)
Related Words despoil, loot, pillage, plunder, sack, spoil, strip; bleed, break in, cheat, chisel, cozen, defraud, exploit, fleece, gyp, mulct, rook, squeeze, stick, swindle; hold up, mug, stick up
And my trip to the dictionary shows that rob has several definitions ...
Entry Word: rob
Function: verb
Text: to remove valuables from (a place) unlawfully <in jail for robbing a bank>
Synonyms burglarize, rip off, steal (from)
Related Words despoil, loot, pillage, plunder, sack, spoil, strip; bleed, break in, cheat, chisel, cozen, defraud, exploit, fleece, gyp, mulct, rook, squeeze, stick, swindle; hold up, mug, stick up
But SamG's overall point is well taken. "Robbed" isn't wrong in this case.
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Clever Login Name
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posted November 22, 2006 08:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SamG is God's Gift to MediaLine:
You are applying a strict legal definition to the verb "rob"
Here's the entry from Merriam Webster's Thesaurus for "rob"
rob
One entry found for rob.
Entry Word: rob
Function: verb
Text: to remove valuables from (a place) unlawfully <in jail for robbing a bank>
Synonyms burglarize, rip off, steal (from)
So you see, in speaking plain english, she was "robbed"
Thanks for bringing up an important issue.
ps Should a person be arrested for this crime, it would be more important to be careful in reporting what he/she was charged with.
The dictionary definition and the legal definition seem to differ ... rob and burglarize are synonymous? To me, "rob" has always meant the person was in actual possession of the valuable at the time it was taken ... swiping an unattended purse doesn't count.
edit to add: anyone who read the headline and immediately thought the daughter was held up by some criminal KNOWS that "rob" is the wrong word for this headline.
[ November 22, 2006, 09:06 AM: Message edited by: Clever Login Name ]
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Can't Keep Me Down
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posted November 22, 2006 09:32 AM
It's wrong, but not deliberately. It's because the person who used it is dumb.
There's a difference.
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Produce man
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posted November 22, 2006 09:49 AM
Thanks for pointing out what was expressed in an earlier post.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Ryder13
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posted November 22, 2006 10:07 AM
I don't want to get into whether or not the word "rob" was used correctly except to say that I agree with SamG here, especially since he has the dictionary to back him up -- however, we must remember what the purpose of a headline is -- TO SELL NEWSPAPERS!
Sensationalistic? You could make an argument for that -- but to take the paper to task about reporting on where the Bush daughters are? Reporting on the whereabouts of Presidential offspring did not exactly start with this administration.
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Can't Keep Me Down
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posted November 22, 2006 02:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Produce man:
Thanks for pointing out what was expressed in an earlier post.
Can you not add anything to discussions? Are you incapable?
It seems you like to follow me around and jsut post put downs towards me.
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Produce man
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posted November 22, 2006 03:10 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Can't Keep Me Down:
quote:
Originally posted by Produce man:
Thanks for pointing out what was expressed in an earlier post.
Can you not add anything to discussions? Are you incapable?
It seems you like to follow me around and jsut post put downs towards me.
Aggravating, huh? Welcome to my world.
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Obewon
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posted November 22, 2006 03:41 PM
A couple of observations since I started this.
There are several different "dictionary" definitions of the term. It depends on which one you choose.
Generally speaking, robbery has historically been used by both police and journalists to refer to the taking of money or property by force, as opposed to this which was a simple larceny.
I agree with the poster who said the headlines were designed to get eyeballs, but that doesn't excuse the fact that it is deliberately misleading.
It also doesn't explain why the same verbage wouldn't be used to describe a purse snatching from an ordinary citizen, which it would not.
This brings me back to my original point that the primary (and admittedly subtle) reason for the misuse of this word is to make fun of the Bush's.
If you follow the blogs, it triggered a massive response by a certain political mindsight (which we don't talk about here) that the Bush girls are misusing taxpayer money by partying in South America.
The people who started the whole thing knew perfectly well that would happen.
I also agree that it is possible that mere illiteracy and stupidity could be the reason. But that does not explain why it was re-written and repeated throughout the day. Are there really that many moron journalists??
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Can't Keep Me Down
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posted November 22, 2006 04:15 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Produce man:
quote:
Originally posted by Can't Keep Me Down:
quote:
Originally posted by Produce man:
Thanks for pointing out what was expressed in an earlier post.
Can you not add anything to discussions? Are you incapable?
It seems you like to follow me around and jsut post put downs towards me.
Aggravating, huh? Welcome to my world.
How is that your world when you are doing it to me?
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east coast producer
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posted November 22, 2006 04:22 PM
Use "burgled."
BUSH BURGLED OF PURSE.
End of discussion.
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Soul Doubt
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posted November 22, 2006 04:34 PM
I was burgled once. I was all 'hey dad, I don't dig this'
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ewink
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posted November 22, 2006 05:02 PM
quote:
Originally posted by eastcoast producer:
Use "burgled."
BUSH BURGLED OF PURSE.
End of discussion.
Ding!
And to legally be robbed you have to have stuff stolen by force. That's why you don't get charged with Robbery when you break into someone's car and gank the radio and rims.
I get very annoyed at 'conversational' English, since it pushes us to use words incorrectly.
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Obewon
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posted November 22, 2006 05:07 PM
I hate being a nit-picker, but from Webster:
burglarize
One entry found for burglarize.
Main Entry: bur·glar·ize
Pronunciation: 'b&r-gl&-"rIz also 'b&r-g&-l&-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -ized; -iz·ing
transitive verb
1 : to break into and steal from <burglarize a house>
As there was no "breaking in" involved in this case, it remains a simple larceny. Not a burglary, not a robberyb
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Peace-Through Superior Firepower
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Sultanosurf
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posted November 22, 2006 06:11 PM
Kramer did it...
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Tripe Face
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posted November 22, 2006 08:57 PM
OK you idiots, I'm gonna 'splain this one more time.
When you come home from Thanksgiving at the In-Laws and walk in the front door and see the lock's been jimmied, and your sh!t is a mess and your new tv, your camcorder, your collection of Abba CDs and your mother's good silver tea set are GONE.
What are you going to say when you call 9-1-1... "Help I've been burgled!" or "Come quick, I've been a victim of larceny!"
NO.
You are gonna call 9-1-1 and say "I've been ROBBED"
And you won't be wrong.
You are not cops writing a police report, you are not Asst. Dist. Attorney's preparing an idictment. You are news writers trying to communicate to the largest possible audience.
Robbed is a fine word that fits many situations.
I'm sorry I had to be so harsh. Don't let it get you down. It takes time to learn these things.
Now run along and enjoy Thanksgiving.
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There will be no dealing with him soon." Writer2 11/9/07
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Michigan J. Frog
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posted November 22, 2006 09:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SamG is God's Gift to MediaLine:
You are not cops writing a police report, you are not Asst. Dist. Attorney's preparing an idictment. You are news writers trying to communicate to the largest possible audience.
You forgot to say "...trying to accurately communicate..."
Let's not dumb down the news any further just because you find it tough to use the correct word.
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s'news
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posted November 22, 2006 09:10 PM
Not to get petty, but do we know of an actual headline that said "robbed"?
I still have no problem with that. The story will give additional context. We write for the general public, not the police.
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Lazlo Toth
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posted November 22, 2006 09:57 PM
We refer to it as the R word.
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Another side
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posted November 23, 2006 02:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Michigan J. Frog:
quote:
Originally posted by SamG is God's Gift to MediaLine:
You are not cops writing a police report, you are not Asst. Dist. Attorney's preparing an idictment. You are news writers trying to communicate to the largest possible audience.
You forgot to say "...trying to accurately communicate..."
Let's not dumb down the news any further just because you find it tough to use the correct word.
I agree. If you choose the correct word, you can avoid conversations like this:
John (on telephone): "Peter, you won't believe it ... I was robbed last night!"
Peter: "You're kidding! Are you OK? Did you get hurt ... did he have a gun?"
John: "Oh, I'm fine. I wasn't even home. I was 90 miles away at an expensive Eagles concert wathing Henley save the whales or whatever, when he should have been apologizing for entertaining a 16-year-old girl 25 years ago. They just took some of my stuff, that's all."
Peter: "Glad to hear that. When I hear `robbery' I always think of someone sticking a gun in your back and muttering, `Give me your wallet or I'll shoot.' I'm sorry you lost stuff, but I'm glad you weren't hurt."
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bride
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posted November 23, 2006 03:23 AM
My news director is a stickler for "robbed" (taking by force) vs. "burgled" (sneaking around and stealing stuff).
New question: do we have to be careful when we use the word "thief" vs. "burglar"?
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Another side
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posted November 23, 2006 04:19 AM
Yes, in my view.
Burglary (legally speaking) is the act of breaking in somewhere ... with the intent to commit a theft. For my money, if you intend to steal, you're a thief. But, I wouldn't call the defendant a thief until he or she was convicted.
If you're homeless, and you break into a house to get out the elements, you're probably going to be charged with some variation of "criminal trespass" -- but not "burglary."
I'm sorta like your boss, in that I believe every word has a distinct meaning, and an effort should be made to choose the precise word for the meaning you intend to imply.
But I'm also a realist, and the realist in me recognizes that the writer must sometimes choose from among the legal meaning, the dictionary definition, the generally accepted meaning, and finally, the AP Style Guide preference, because that's the reason the style guide was invented --to work through inconsistencies among the other three options, and to be sure that "burglary" means the same to New York audiences as it does to the original readers, viewers and listeners when the story ran/runs in LA.
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bride
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posted November 23, 2006 04:25 AM
When I'm writing a story and describing a burglary, I might say, hypothetically, "the thieves then left through a side window and took off into the woods..."
as opposed to,
"the robbers demanded money from the bank teller then took off on foot..."
Just wondering if "thieves" is the correct terminology for the first scenario.
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wxgeek
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posted November 23, 2006 05:21 AM
If they took something, "thieves" would apply. Otherwise, use "burglars."
Edit: "Suspects" would also work.
[ November 23, 2006, 05:22 AM: Message edited by: wxgeek ]
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Another side
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posted November 23, 2006 06:07 AM
If the cops are telling you they stole something, sure, thieves is appropriate. (If you use the names of the thieves, then, obviously you'd want to attribute "thieves" to the cops.)
I'm not a big fan of "suspects" when there are other choices more precise. But again, I'm anal like that.
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TVMattNYC
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posted November 23, 2006 06:12 AM
Generally speaking, we in the media make the distinction between "robbed" and "burgled" in the following manner:
burglarized = valuables stolen from a PLACE
robbed = valuables stolen from a PERSON (yes, an unattended purse counts).
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Tripe Face
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posted November 23, 2006 07:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Another side:
quote:
Originally posted by Michigan J. Frog:
quote:
Originally posted by SamG is God's Gift to MediaLine:
You are not cops writing a police report, you are not Asst. Dist. Attorney's preparing an idictment. You are news writers trying to communicate to the largest possible audience.
You forgot to say "...trying to accurately communicate..."
Let's not dumb down the news any further just because you find it tough to use the correct word.
I agree. If you choose the correct word, you can avoid conversations like this:
John (on telephone): "Peter, you won't believe it ... I was robbed last night!"
Peter: "You're kidding! Are you OK? Did you get hurt ... did he have a gun?"
John: "Oh, I'm fine. I wasn't even home. I was 90 miles away at an expensive Eagles concert wathing Henley save the whales or whatever, when he should have been apologizing for entertaining a 16-year-old girl 25 years ago. They just took some of my stuff, that's all."
Peter: "Glad to hear that. When I hear `robbery' I always think of someone sticking a gun in your back and muttering, `Give me your wallet or I'll shoot.' I'm sorry you lost stuff, but I'm glad you weren't hurt."
Are mocking me, Another Side?
Happy Thanksgiving!
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There will be no dealing with him soon." Writer2 11/9/07
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Can't Keep Me Down
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posted November 23, 2006 07:30 AM
Another Side: A voice of reason with the ability to articulate accurately.
Thanks AS!
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bride
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posted November 23, 2006 11:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by wxgeek:
If they took something, "thieves" would apply. Otherwise, use "burglars."
Edit: "Suspects" would also work.
Suspect doesn't work unless someone is found and is considered a suspect. When you have an unknown on the loose, I don't think it's appropriate to call that unknown robber/thief a "suspect".
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Why-Dangle-Lens
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posted November 23, 2006 03:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Obewon:
This is the generally accepted definition of the term "Rob"
"OH, R-O-O-O-O-O-B-B-B-B-B-B-B!"
-Laura Petrie, 'The Dick Van Dyke Show.'
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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